The Redhunter

Socialist Medicine?

Canada, stand-in-line. Cuba? Great for Sean Penn.
Ireland? That Hip-replacement - up 3 years! reb
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The weird thing is that America already has socialised medicine. I went to a lecture yesterday by the political scientist R.Douglas Arnold. According to OECD figures, in 2006 the USA spent more public money per capita on healthcare than the UK did. And the UK has the fully socialised, free-at-the-point-of-use NHS.

So what exactly is the big deal about?

See OECD Health Data 2006 at oecd.org/health

Myline, in short the issue is the level of government control. Obama wants a lot more of it, conservatives less. Obama wants the government to essentially control the process from start to finish, conservatives want individual freedoms. Obama and liberals believe that health insurance is a right, conservatives do not.

My understanding is that Obamacare will not abolish private health insurance. Under the new system, you will still be able to buy healthcare the old, capitalist, free market way if you want to. Just like in Britain you can still purchase private health insurance if you choose to.

So how will things change? Even as things are, Americans are being coerced (through taxation) into paying for Medicare and Medicaid. That's socialism, however you want to look at it. And at the moment, Americans are spending more tax dollars per citizen on public healthcare than the British are on their NHS.

Yet up until now I have never heard anyone (including yourself) complain that their rights are being trampled on. So which is it? Is America a socialist country even now? In which case, why the hysteria?

If you're going to slam Obamacare, I think it's only intellectually honest to spell out your own vision for healthcare reform - what you would like a (presumably Republican) government to do instead. Should Medicare be abolished?

Mylne

Obamacare will end up abolishing private health insurance for two reasons: One, private companies cannot compete against a government plan because the latter can be subsidized with tax dollars. Second, because Obama has admitted that he wants a single-payer plan (he now lies about what he once said) as have other Democrats. Basically, it's pretty well known that the left in this country wants to make health coverage/insurance totally federal with no private companies. Arguing otherwise is silly.

I don't really see Medicare and Medicaid as socialism, as they're for the elderly and poor. But whatever.

As for rights, I'm not sure what you mean. Obamacare will take away what few choices we have today.

"Hysteria" - Yes well we Americans get worked up about our freedoms. Where are you from again, Mylne? Are you an American or where do you live?

As for a conservative plan, it would incorporate

1) Portability of insurance. Change the tax code so that you can buy health insurance like you buy car insurance; ie you don't have to go through your employer.

2) A federal tax credit whereby you would get the same tax benefit if you buy health insurance on the free market. Currently only employers get this.

3) People without insurance get treated, of course. But unless they are truly poor or indigent they get billed for it. It would be worked into your federal taxes so you'd pay a little bit each year until you paid it off

4) Tort reform. Right now the incentive is for lawyers to enrich themselves for trivial mistakes. Limits should be set on punitive damages.

This is a freedom agenda that does not force anyone to do or pay anything. If you are truely needy we'll pay for you, but if you're earning a good living but are dumb enough not to buy insurance then you take your own risks.

"I don't really see Medicare and Medicaid as socialism, as they're for the elderly and poor. But whatever."

I have to pick up on that, sorry. What kind of a caveat is that? Isn't the whole point of socialism that it protects the poor and the vulnerable? Whoever heard of socialism for the benefit of the rich?

As for my background, I am from the UK but have recently moved to the US, so I bring a definite British perspective to the healthcare debate. Your point about private healthcare insurers being unable to compete against a government-run plan is simply untrue. As you know, Britain has government-run free healthcare, and yet it also has private hospitals and private insurers (the biggest is called BUPA) for those who don't think the NHS level of service is good enough for them.

Private healthcare can exist perfectly comfortably alongside socialised healthcare, so the argument that a public healthcare option will somehow jeopardise Americans' rights just doesn't hold true. You might as well say that the police are unconstitutional because they undercut the ability of private security forces to compete on the marketplace.

Snake Hunter Sez,

Mylne Karimov remains mute if asked to identify
who she represents, or where she's from - now isn't that curious? It's best to ignore this lady.
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Van Jones - This hard-core "green-czar" haa been exposed; an admitted communist-radical "advisor", resigned in disgrace this morning.

His White-House Pass Is Automatically Nullified.

One Obama Czar Gone, 36 more questionable czars are still there...Without Senate Approval. It's time for some CHANGE we can believe in! reb

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